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March 16, 2009

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Comments

Selfprotection

Things have really changed since I've been in the service. We were put in a room, they turned on the "gas", we were then instructed to remove our masks and run around the room until we were told to get out of the room.

Pepper Spray Keychain

Since when did the Navy start coddling the newbie’s, they are training for war, the enemy will not coddle them…what are they thinking here?

Mace Pepper Spray

Judge Richard Leon, deserves a round of applause. Unless training is way over the top for our troops, why take up the courts time with this kinda of stuff.

Pepper Spray Self Protection

We need more like Judge Richard Leon. I was in the Navy and went through the training. I will admit, yes it was painful but it was all part of the training and getting ready for combat conditions. I could agree with the officers only if we could talk the enemy into "smearing a small amount of the spray on the skin beneath the eyes". I can understand the ignorance of the officers since they usally got their heads in their port hole.

Self Defense Products

A dose of OC has been pasrt of military training forever. Good for you judge.

Tim

Training should be as realistic as possible. I agree with the judge's ruling on this one.

ReShonda

Anyone who carries pepper spray needs to know the effects of it. They need to understand why it will stop a criminal. The Navy trainees definitely need to be told, if they aren't swift enough to already know, to close their eyes when pepper spray is being sprayed at their faces. If the training is done properly, there is no need to be worried about any long term damage to the cadets after being sprayed with pepper spray.

Hal

Three things:

First, the point of spraying trainees is that, if they are forced to deploy the spray they carry on a suspect, they are very probably going to be contaminated. It is vital that someone carrying at least one loaded weapon understand the effects of this stuff and know how to defend themselves in a situation where they are contaminated.

Second, I have sprayed hundreds of people in the last several years in training and only a VERY MINUTE number had any serious adverse reactions. If the training is conducted by the book, it is sprayed on the forehead, not the eyes, and the trainee has their eyes closed.

Finally, the only reason that OC is considered a "Chemical Weapon" is because that idiot Clinton allowed it to be included on a list of Chem Weps that he signed. One more way in which he made the world safer for law-abiding citizens!

Sean

Wow... this is simply amazing. What kind of people are we allowing as officers in our military? I literally went through OC(Oleoresin Capsicum) training last week at a law enforcement academy and can safely state that none of the 150+ cadets who took the training had any side effects other than those that OC is designed to induce. It should be noted that no one during the past 8 or so years has ever had any reactions requiring medical treatment.

As for eye damage, aren't the Navy recruits smart enough to close their eyes while being sprayed? It is a known fact that a direct, close(less than 3ft) application could possible cause eye damage, but that is why trainees close their eyes before they are sprayed and stand approximately 5ft away. OC doesn't require contact to the eyes while being sprayed to be effective. In fact, users are taught to aim for the forehead of the subject they are spraying to maximize the effectiveness of the spray.

Kevin

Uh, you think pepper spray is rough? Ever heard of Hell Week? Pencil pushers should stay at their desks and leave the big kids alone. Good for the judge.

Robert Clark

What should "shock the conscience" is that we allow armed forces service members to be pansies and sue the government over pepper spray. Marine vet, former cop---I use the stuff when I make chili for a little kick. This stuff is, almost literally, margarine and cayenne pepper.

I am glad to see there is stilla little reason on the federal bench.

Jim Steele

Nothing like unintelligent supervisors and leaders. I've been there and done this, there is no added value to this stress related training by being hit directly in the naked eye with pepper spray.

I've taught police tactics, self-defense, and unarmed combat techniques as well as the use of the ASP and CAPSTUN. Not only was I SWAT team member and leader but also a regular officer so I know what I'm talking about.

There have always been two schools of thought with police training and they are that you need to test less-than-lethal products on yourself in order to survive an encounter with one. And the other is that of course this can be done but with reasoned and logical applications of the test product.

Any smart department will allow the wear of tactical glasses or apply the spray below the eye...even criminals will turn their head or use their hands to protect themselves from this stuff...

Just wait until someone up the chain of command suffers a corneal abrasion after attempting to wash this stuff out of their eyes using running water from a hose...then the policy will change.

As I said before, there is nothing like a culture of stupidity to use as an example of what not to do.

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